Horses in Revelation

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hello friends, this is Pastor Doug Batchelor; How about an Amazing Fact! Horses come in many colors shapes and sizes, black and white, hairy and smooth, big and small according to the Guinness book of world records, the smallest living horse on the planet is Thumbelina! Born May 1^st in 2001 in St. Louise; This dwarf miniature horse only weighs 57 pounds and stands 17 inches tall! Smaller than many dogs, Thumbelina can virtually run under a barn fence! Then on the other hand there is big Jake that holds the world record as the tallest living horse! Big Jake in Ponia Wisconsin stands at an official height of 6ft 10 ¾ inches tall! In horse vernacular, that is about 20hands 2 ¾ inches! Big Jake weighs in at 2600 pounds in and is kept healthy by consuming 1 and ½ bales of hay and 40 quarts of oats per day! Big Jake, He could walk right over many farm fences! Did you know that horses are mentioned in the Bible about 160 times? And they figure prominently in the prophecies of Revelation!

Stay with us friends we are going to learn more as amazing facts brings you, this edition of Bible Answers Live!

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Welcome listening friends to Bible Answers Live! And if you are joining us for the first time, this program is all about doing our best to answer any Bible questions you might have! So if you have questions about Christian faith or the Word of God then give us a call, It is a free phone call; that number is 800 God says, lines are open right now! We have quite a few lines open, so if you have a Bible question, it is a good time to pick up your question and give us a call; 800-463-7297 brings you into the studio here with your question! One more time it is 800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor. Pastor John Ross has the night off and together we are going to do our best to answer your question. So to begin the program, we will start with a word of prayer;

Father in heaven we just thank you for the privilege we have of delving into this blessed book called the Bible, we pray the Holy Spirit will illuminate our minds and that You will be very close to us, Lord, we know that there is a lot of questions represented out there in the audience, and we pray that the nature of the questions that come in will do the greatest amount of good for those that are listening, speak to our hearts, we pray in Jesus name, Amen!”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: well friends I was surprised to learn, when I did a little computer search that horses are mentioned, just about 160 times- in the Bible it is actually 159 times and you can find them, pretty much from Genesis all the way to Revelation! And in Revelation in particular, a lot of people have heard about the four horse men of the apocalypse and that really is the first four of the seven seals of Revelation! Let me read one or two to you and see if you recognize this; Revelation 6:1

“And I saw when the lamb opened one of the seals, I heard as it was the noise of thunder and one of the four beasts saying, come and see. And I saw and behold a white horse! And he that sat upon him had a bow, and a crown was given to him; and he went forth conquering and to conquer. And when he opened the second seal, I heard the beast saying, come and see. And there went out another horse that was red! And power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth; and that they should kill one another, and was given unto him a great sword! Then he opens the third seal, and I heard the beast say, come and see. And I beheld, and lo! A black horse; and he that sat upon him, had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard the voice in the midst of the four beasts say, a measure of wheat for a penny and three measures of barley for a penny, and see that you do not hurt the oil and the wine. And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard a voice of the fourth beast say, come and see. And I looked and behold a pale horse! And his name that sat on him, was Death! And hell followed with him. And power was given unto him over the fourth part of the earth that killed with a sword, with hunger and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, there you have it friends, those are the four horse men of the apocalypse; and they are each sitting on a different horse, one is white and one is red and one is black and one is pale! And the word pale there is something like color of potato shoot when it first comes out of the closet- sort of a deathly pale color. It starts out white conquering and it ends up deathly pale. And many have seen that represents a political transition that the church will go through, starting out white pure on fire, and ending up with death. And these seven seals that you find, in Revelation chapter 6 and 7, they march the political history of the church; from the first coming of Jesus to the second coming of Jesus. When you read in Revelation chapter two and three, it has the seven churches! Those messages to the seven churches represent the religious history of the church from the first coming to the second coming; Then you have the seven trumpets in Revelation, those seven trumpets represents the military history of what would happen, between Jesus first coming and the second coming, and this is called the historic view of Revelation or prophesy. Maybe you are wondering where we are now with everything happening in the country and in the world; and we have a free offer dealing with Bible prophesy we will send you just for asking! ‘It is called the USA in Bible prophesy!’ If you would like a free copy of this lesson- it is fully illustrated beautiful lesson, it takes the subject of, Does America figure in prophesy and where would it be? We will send that to you just for asking! Are you ready? This is a different phone number, it is 800-835-6747, that is to ask for the free offer tonight, ‘The USA in Bible prophesy’

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I should also mention that we are streaming again tonight, if you would like to tune in and watch the other web that is simply, live.amazingfacts.org and we welcome you to tune in! Alright, with that- I have more to share later but, I am going to start going to the phones, and we are going to talk to Michael, who is calling from West Orange New Jersey, on WMCA, welcome Michael you are on the air!

Michael: Pastor Doug I want to thank you for your service and Pastor Ross also.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, thank you so much it is a pleasure.

Michael: Alright I have a two part question but it is related; In Exodus 26 they speak of the tabernacle and I was wondering, whatever happened to the tabernacle?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know that is a good question, We know it began to dilapidate, because around the time of King David it was still in existence and he said “The ark is dwelling in curtains and I am in the temple” – you know he wanted to build the temple for the ark of the covenant, which his son finally did, but we think that it just sort of just began to deteriorate; there is no record in the Bible if they did anything to archive it or to store it or save it, it probably just disintegrated; during one of the times they were conquered by some kings- Solomon had a lot of gold that he turned into golden shields that were put in the temple of the Lord, and some have wondered, did he take the panels that were part of the wilderness tabernacle, melt them down, turn them into the shields that were put in the temple so that he could have some carry over from the tabernacle to the new temple; we cannot prove that, that is one theory. But then pharaoh Necho came after Rehoboam became king. Rehoboam was the son of Solomon and he carried away those shields. It is hard to say what happened to it, we know that the temple did not fair very well, when it was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar.

Michael: So the final resting place of the Ark of the Covenant was Solomon’s temple then?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes at that point all of the major furniture that had been made in the wilderness- that being, the table of showbread, the golden ark of incense, the golden lamp stand, the Ark of the Covenant; those things were carried from the wilderness tabernacle into Solomon’s temple. There they stayed until it was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and we know that the articles probably in the first apartments of the temple- namely the candle stick, the table of showbread, the alter of incense, they were probably carried off to Babylon, but the king of Persia, then gave the Jews permission to bring them back from Persia when they build the third temple. But the ark is never mentioned again; and it is believed that before Nebuchadnezzar burned the temple, that they took that ark and hid it in a Cave somewhere around Jerusalem

Michael: That would be through Daniel then?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, it actually happened before the time of Daniel, because Daniel was in Babylon, it probably happened during the time of Jeremiah. Have you seen our lesson on the- yes we have a lesson if you would like to look the subject of the sanctuary, it is called, ‘ God Drew the Plan’ we will be happy to send you a copy of that lesson Michael, just call 800-835-6747 and ask for the lesson on ‘ God drew the plan’ Thank you! Next we will be talking to Loretta calling from Savannah Georgia and listening on WDNX, Loretta you are on the air!

Loretta: Yes, thank you, good evening Pastor

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good evening

Loretta: Once again without Pastor Ross I have prepared an easy question for you

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Oh thank you!

Loretta: [chuckling] My question comes from Romans 4; I have been communicating with a lady, and we have been talking about the Sabbath! Verses 1 to 23 in general but specifically verses 4 to 6. And she ask me about this, in reference to the Sabbath and I was not exactly sure how to respond; and I would like to know- do you know what was happening that time when Paul wrote this chapter?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, I will do my best. First can I read that verse for our friends listening because you and I know what it says, but a lot of people are driving there on the road; Romans chapter 4 starting with verse 4: “now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but debt! But to him that worketh but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describe the blessedness of the man, unto whom the Lord imputeth righteousness without works,” – here Paul is quoting form psalms 32, where David said, “Blessed is the man whose transgressions is forgiven.” Paul is just talking to some of the Hebrews that would be wondering- of course it is the book of Romans, but he is addressing that some of the Hebrews that would be reading it there; why would God require us to work, for what is given by grace? Now, sometimes, people will quote this verse or some others, when you bring up the Sabbath truth, and it makes it sound like if you are keeping the Sabbath, you are believing in righteousness by works. You can say that to any Christian that talks about obeying any of the ten commandments; so if you were to do a study with someone on the commandment that says, ‘you are not supposed to steal,’ but you can quote this and say, well if you are keeping that commandment, you are under the law and you are under works, and we are not supposed to be under the law, we are under grace and it has nothing to do by not keeping the law, it means that we accept forgiveness by faith!

Loretta: Pastor Doug, I think I might have given the wrong verses, the one about the Sabbath day, I guess

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Did you mean Romans 14?

Loretta: Is that it, it must be I am sorry

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I wondered if that is what you meant, but alright, that is an easy one; Romans 14 verse 4 “Who are thou that judges another man’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls, yes he shall be holding up, for God is able to make him stand, One man esteems one day above another; another man esteems every day alike, let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regards a day regards it to the Lord! And he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he give God thanks; he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not and he gives God thanks.” Very simply, the Jewish Christians, the Jews who accepted Jesus, were telling the gentile Christians in Rome” you need to keep the annual feast!” they were also called Sabbaths, - you notice the word Sabbath never appears anywhere in the chapter; and he is basically saying, “look if you want to keep the Passover and the feast of trumpets,”- Paul still kept some of those days even after he accepted Jesus, but it is not required for a Christian to keep any of those days; if a person does it as a memorial, then let them do it! It is kind of like Christmas, there is no command that tells us that you have to celebrate Christmas; if a person wants to remember the birth of Christ then that is wonderful!

But it is not required- so some people have used this when to comes to the Sabbath day, but what I think is interesting is that you will never hear a pastor, who believes in the first day Sabbath; …quote Romans 14 verse 6 and say” You know if you folks want to show up on Sunday, then that is fine, you can keep it for the Lord and if you Do not, you want to stay home and watch football, then that is fine too.” Nobody ever uses this verse that way until you bring up the seventh day Sabbath; so it is kind of inconsistent, but it really has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath and it has to do with the annual Sabbath. Hope that helps a little Loretta, we appreciate your call, we do have a book that is called, ‘Feast Days and Sabbaths’ I do not know if you have seen that yet, you can call and request a copy, 800-835-6747 , we will send it to you for free. It is called ‘Feast days and Sabbaths’ 800-835-6747 or you can read it for free by going to the amazing facts website! Which is amazingfacts.org or amazingfacts.com either one

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Thank you Loretta, going now to talk with Sherry, who is calling from St. Paul Minnesota! Listening on 3ABN TV; Sherry, you are on the air with Bible Answers Live!

Sherry: Hello Pastor Doug,

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening

Sherry: First of all I want to thank you so much for your teaching, you have taught me soo much with soo much clarity it just makes things soo much easier, so I really appreciate that

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, we enjoy doing that, I am learning from our callers all the time.

Sherry: My question Pastor Doug tonight, is on Deuteronomy 14:26

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Can I read that for our friends?

Sherry: Yes,Please do

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It says in Deuteronomy 14:26; “And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,” Do you want me to explain the strong drink part or explain the tithe part. . .

Sherry: Yes, I do the tithe part

Pastor Doug Batchelor: People ask this question two ways; one, they are wondering, is this the same as the tithe that is given, a tenth of your increase to the temple? Here it talks about giving it to the poor; and then they ask about wine or strong drink, does that say you can just get drunk! You can use this special tithe to buy wine?

No! There was a special tithe that was used for the annual feast, and it was to be used to subsidize – going there, they could also share with the poor; and when it says, “ wine is strong drink” that was simply grape juice, or concentrated grape juice; have you ever had concentrated orange juice before Sherry?

Sherry: oh yes!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I remember one time, Caroline and I came home from making a run to town and one of our boys had made some orange juice and he did not look very well, we said, “what is wrong?” and he said “ I have a stomach ache” and told us that he had drunk some the frozen orange juice, but he did not know you were supposed to add water, and because it is soo strong and concentrated, he got tummy ache. Well, the Hebrews used to condense, they used to dehydrate the grape juice and they made a strong paste out of it because it could keep and travel lighter! You know what makes any drink heavy is the liquid! And so they would melt it down and make a paste out of it, and then they would rehydrate it; and they called it strong drink and it was just concentrated grape juice.

Sherry: Great! I am glad you clarified that, a friend of mine. . .

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It does not say you should party on the road and get drunk! Because the Bible does not support that

Sherry: And Pastor I am wondering- I know you have other callers, there is one other really quick question I have in Hebrews 11:39, and I am sure they are talking about the matters there; and I am wondering why, because I am reading on the amplified Bible and it says, “ and all of these be one divine?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It says here in verse 39, “And all of these, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided something better for us, that they without us should not be made perfect” you want to know what that means?

Sherry: I wondered what do they mean by it was not fulfilled, they did not get the fulfillment that was promised?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well the promised fulfillment that was that Christ would come, and these great people of faith, these great men and women of Bible history, they lived by faith looking forward, but they did not get to see Jesus actually be born and do the miracles, that Paul is saying, that these folks- Paul and his contemporaries- they lived during the life of Christ, and he said “they all longed to see the fulfillment of everything that we saw! And they were not made perfect without us” in other words, they are only saved by what Jesus did, they were not saved by their own righteousness, they were saved by their faith in looking forward to the cross; whereas you and I are saved by faith cross looking back at the cross, but Paul and the people who lived with them, they were right in the middle of it all

Sherry: And by us looking forward by faith for His coming back again!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Exactly!

Sherry: Okay great! Thank you so much Pastor Doug

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright! Thank you Sherry I appreciate your call. With that we are going to talk with Alex who is calling from New York on WMCA! Welcome Alex, you are on the air!

Alex: Hi, how are you?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Doing great!

Alex: One question is what does the Bible say about gambling? And is it okay for a Christian to purchase lottery tickets?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well you are not going to find the word gambling per se in the Bible but it does tell us that the soldiers that crucified Jesus, gambled at the cross and it was not a good thing, there also was probably cursing at the cross and we know they were mocking him; the idea of getting rich quick, proverbs tell us that “He that makes haste to get rich will not be innocent” usually when gambling or lottery is involved it is unfortunate that governments across the country are now sponsoring lotteries, but it is such a tempting way for them to make money it is hard for them to resist. They claim that they will use the money and they will use the lottery to fund schools and fund public transit and staff; in reality it does not all get used the way that they promised that it is going to be used! But like any gambling a lot of people lose and a handful win, so the odds of making money through gambling are extremely small, it is much, much better investment to take the funds that someone might use on a lottery ticket or on gambling and if they put it in the bank- in some investments where you will get small percentage, you will do much better. Anything you get addicted to is not good and we know for a fact that there are people who, their homes are broken and they become addicted to gambling and they lose everything because they cannot stop; and that in itself tells you-you mean you walk up the street in Vegas and it does not take long before you realize, it is the world on steroids! You know what I mean?

Alex: yes

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It is not a very spiritual holy environment. The Bible does not have much good to say about gambling

Alex: can you repeat what text you said in proverbs?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: you know I could not find it because I was not looking actually, but I will let you look it up, but it is “He that makes haste to get rich, will not be innocent” and I do not remember what proverb it is right now, Pastor Ross is not here and he usually scrambling with the key board when I am rambling on the phone.

Alex: Okay thank you very much

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright thank you, I appreciate your call! And talking next with Jerry, calling from Medford Oregon listening on the internet; Jerry you are on the air with Bible Answers Live!

Jerry: Yes pastor Doug, I am looking at Exodus 33:11, 20. Do you want to read them or should I?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You are welcome to

Jerry: Okay, eleven, “ The Lord which speaks to Moses face to face as a man speaks with his friend,” and then verse 20, “ but He said “ You cannot see my face for no one may see me and live!”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right! Now does it sound like a contradiction?

Jerry: Right!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: There is two ways the word face to face is used, sometime we talk about face to face, meaning that you are not writing but you are in the presence of somebody, and it is a figure of speech! So John’s friends since he was writing the letters he,the apostle John in the New Testament and said, “Rather than write with pen right now, I hope to see you face to face”; and he just means you have two options, you can communicate through some else or through a letter or you can be in person. Moses spoke to God in person, but he did not actually get to look on the very face, face of God, because it is soo brilliant, you see those visions described in writings of Daniel and Ezekiel in Revelation and they fell down as though they were dead! Now, people have seen God the Son but they have not seen God the Father! And one reason I know that is that, is that when Jacob wrestled with the angels, he said, “I have seen God face to face!” And there is times when Christ appeared in the Old Testament they are called Christophanies- may be thats what Moses saw was the face of God the Son, but he may not have seen the face of the Father, even Jesus said, no man has seen the Father, but the Son. So that is the only way I have been able to reconcile those verses, is to say that the Lord is making the distinction there. Jesus is the member of the God head through whom God communicates with humanity, He is the bridge. So no man has seen God the Father’s face, but they had seen God the Son’s

Jerry: And there is another scripture and I kind of caught it the last moment, so I did not look it up, but it talks about, Moses and a group of his followers signing the covenant with God and meeting Him and the same thing, face to face and talks about. . .

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right, the seventy elders

Jerry: Yes, that is it- does it go with the explanation you just gave, Does that cover that too or?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I would think that again this would be an example of them seeing the face of the Son as opposed to being the face of the Father; it is the only way I can reconcile- Glory of God the Father is soo astounding- let me see here, I am looking for that other one where it says face to face, I have the one in Exodus 11, I think it is also an Exodus, but it may not say face to face, it means they saw the face of God

Jerry: Right I believe it is in Exodus too, for some reason I just cannot find it and I kind of called you at the spur of the moment

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, that is when the seventy elders met with the Lord, and they saw Him in person, is the way I would translate that, I do not know that it means that they looked on the full Glory of His unveiled face.

Jerry: Okay this kind of relates to one aspect of the Trinity, which is a very puzzling concept too; could it be that this is simply referring to a family, like Jesus is the Son of God and God is the Father, and they are really not one, but they are one in unity, and they are Father and Son or?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well I would not try and relate it to God The Father as the Father and the Holy Spirit as the Mother and Jesus as the offspring, so it is not a family in that sense; I think when the Bible tells us,” God so loved the world that He gave His Son” that it is really telling us that this is helping us understand the love relationship, between God the Father and God the Son; and God the Spirit is the person of the God had, through whom they share. So it is different than our earthly families because, He is just using words and terms that we can understand. Keep in mind that the Lord also said that as a hen loves her chickens and spreads her wings to protect them, so your God loves you! Or as an eagle bears its young on his wings, so I have born you! So our God is not an eagle and He is not a chicken, but He uses this different terms to help us relate to His love and you can see glimpses of this in the natural world; and so I think that is He uses it that way. Thank you for your questions Jerry, I do have a book on the subject of the Trinity, and if you would like to get a free copy, just call 800-835-6747 ask for a book on the Trinity, we will send it out for free!

You are listening to Bible Answers Live!

And friends before I go to another call, we are going to have a break in just a moment, I want to remind you, that a lot of what we do at Amazing Facts, can be replicated, we want you to take advantage of the ministry, just simply go to our web site; amazingfacts.org, and you will find that we have- I did it this week! I will make a confession, I was preaching a sermon, on the name of God- and doing a series of the Ten Commandments, I thought, ‘ I talked about that, about twelve years ago’, I wonder if that sermon is online if I can remember from my notes, I went to our website and I found hundreds of sermons there including my old sermon on the name of God! So I even go there to learn. There are all kinds of information, we have a broad library- free library of sermons, books you can read; the whole purpose of amazing Facts is to share the amazing facts of salvation with the world that is perishing; and so we hope that you would take a look at those things! Now you hear the music at the back ground, we are not going away, we are going to come back and take more of your Bible questions, so stay where you are!

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: We are back listening friends and you found your way to Bible Answers Live, if you have joined us along the way, this is a live international interactive Bible study, and we will invite you to call in with your Bible questions! That number one more time is 800- lines are open; 800-463-7297, if you call and hear a busy signal, that is because have a lot of lines and a couple of screeners, and so be patient, 800 God says, 800- 463- 7297, My name is Doug Batchelor, and pastor John Ross is off for the night! He is actually at an evangelistic event and we are going to go back to the phones in just a minute; I want to remind you, that we have another new website that people are finding very helpful and it is called ‘Bible prophecy Truth!’ We start tonight talking about the four horsemen of the apocalypse! And if you would like to study about Bible prophecy, you not only should go to this website, you should share it with your friends. Bibleprophecytruth.com

Going back to the phones, and next I think we are talking to Janet, who is calling from the Bronx New York, Janet, you are on the air with Bible Answers Live!

Janet: Yes hi,pastor how are you tonight?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Doing well, how are you?

Janet: I am fine thank you, I am going to ask my question, then I will hung up so as to hear your answer, I have often heard about pastors talk about types and shadows, can you explain what that is? One of the books refers to the Bible; can you explain that for me please?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Absolutely, I will do my best and I appreciate your calling in! Throughout the Old Testament, there were symbols of Christ before He ever came, and you can see shadows, in other words examples of salvation in some of the old testament types and symbols. A shadow would bear a resemblance to the actual substance- it is not the actual substance, but it is sort of a foreshadowing of it; in the services of the sanctuary, when the lamb was offered, it is a type or a shadow of Christ the Lamb of God was offered, when Abraham goes up the mountain and he offers his son, it is a type or a shadow of God the Father offering His only beloved Son! When Joseph is sold for the price of a slave by his brothers and thrown in a pit in the ground, that is a type of shadow when Jesus- one of His own twelve apostles sold Him for the price of a slave and He ended up in the tomb, and went through His suffering. So several times through the Bible, you will find examples of these shadows in the lives of different characters and heroes and heroines- in the story of Daniel, in the lion’s den, he is followed around by enemies who are threatened by his position, they spy on him but they cannot find anything wrong with him, they falsely accuse him, he is placed in a pit in the ground covered with a stone sealed with the governments seal, but he comes out alive! Jesus was followed around like Daniel, spied on, they tried to find something wrong with Him, but they could not find any fault- Pilate said that “I find no fault in Him” He was ultimately condemned even though He was innocent, He was put in a tomb, the devil was going around like a roaring lion, but the devil could not keep Jesus, the government seal was placed on the tomb but Jesus came out alive because He was innocent just like Daniel! All these stories you will see types and symbols of Christ and the plan of salvation in these stories, and I appreciate you calling with that question! By the way we had a call a little earlier, and I think it was from Alex and she was asking for that verse relating to gambling, does it say in the Bible that it is inappropriate to gamble? And we quoted a verse but I could not find it, well we found it half time, it is Proverbs 28:20 “ He that makes haste to get rich will not be innocent” Proverbs 28:20. With that we are going to go and talk with Ed, who is waiting patiently in Chicago Illinois. Ed you are on the air with Bible Answers Live!

Ed: Good evening Pastor I love your show, thank you for all you do, I have a quick question about the time of trouble, what is going to happen to the people who have chronic illness, say, diabetes or something like that where they need constant medication, are they doomed, or how is it going to go about that you think?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well first thing I would say is do not worry about it. I know a dear saint years ago that they read the prophecy, they knew some day things were going to get tough and there will be this time of trouble that you read about in Revelation and Matthew 24, and this person was crippled, their legs were paralyzed and they thought, you know, what am I going to do and I guess I’ll just tell them to cut me off and put me away, and they worried about it, and really they did not need to worry about it, because they ended up dying a peaceful death in their old age. I would tell people, “Do not worry”, that is the first thing that I would say, there may be some who will be laid to their rest, the Bible tells us that some people are taken away by death to be saved from the difficult times that are coming-There is a verse in Isaiah , and I cannot remember that verse, but I quoted it to you,” the Lord takes some away” ;and they are taken away to preserve them or protect them from the difficult time that is coming. It says “blessed in the eyes of the Lord is the death of a saint”- some may die before that time and then some, they may go through those persecutions, when that small time trouble comes. You know this happened before, it happened to God’s people when they were in Jerusalem, and they had to flee when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem, Jesus gave them a warning that those that be in Judea flee into the mountains; and the Bible does not tell us exactly what happened to some of those who may have been ill or infirmed at that time, but history says, that no Christians perished in the destruction of Jerusalem, so somehow they got them out and God somehow preserved them. Hope that helps a little Ed, you know I can only give you a vague answer on that one, You still there?

Ed: Yes, thank you very much

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay thank you very much Ed and I will be happy to send you our study guide that talks about the second coming, it is actually a book, and it is called, ‘Anything but Secret!’ it talks about the tribulation, ‘ Anything but Secret!’ we will be delighted to send that to you. Alright now we are going to talk with Mary, she is calling from New Jersey; Mary is listening also on WMCA, welcome Mary you are on the air! Sorry Jersey City

Mary: Thank you thanks for taking my call, I realize that not every person believes in the Bible and believes that it should apply to their lives, but for those who believe that the Bible is applicable to their lives and should be followed; I would like to read Mark 16:17-20, which says “ And these signs will accompany”- this is Jesus speaking, and He is saying “ And these signs will accompany those who believe, in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new tongues, they will pick up snakes with their hands , and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all. They will place their hands on sick people and they will get well.” And then just jump into 20 it says, “Then the disciples went out and they preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed His word by the signs that accompanied them.” It teaches me that Jesus is the same yesterday and today, He says His signs will accompany those who believe and we are at a time where we are – you know a lot of people are expecting the rapture to happen any moment and there is a lot of preaching and ranting against the sinfulness in the world but this in the scripture it just tells me that the rapture-

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Where are the miracles?

Mary: if rapture would happen tomorrow 98% of Christians in the US would be left behind because, these signs do not accompany them and they are not giving Jesus the opportunity to confirm His word by signs

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So your question is?

Mary: My question is, so it seems to me that we are not where we need to be and I am not sure why we are so focused on the sinfulness of the world as opposed to what is going on in our churches and where in the world we need to be, and then how did we get to that level? What is your feedback Mr. Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: First of all those verses that you just read there in Mark chapter 16, I believe all that; first of all we know it happened before when Jesus ascended to heaven, He said, “ these signs will follow you” and you read where the disciples, they did heal the sick, they did raise the dead, Paul was bitten by a serpent and he shook it off- when it says he took it up, it does not mean the disciples went on a snake hunt, it means that if you are bitten by a serpent, they will not hurt you because you are going to have the Holy Spirit that is going to sustain you, if someone tries to poison you- there is no record any of the disciples were poisoned, it does not mean no one tried, but it did seem to work, the Lord preserved them because they had special work to do. So all these signs did follow them, now these happened in what you call the former rain Mary; former rain was something that happened when you plant seed, when it is just planted you need former rain to sprout the seed and get it growing, just before the harvest there what you call the latter rain, and before Jesus comes, I believe the Holy Spirit is going to be poured out again in Pentecostal power and you will see a primitive form of Godliness that we have not witnessed since the days of the apostles, is going to happen again! And that God’s people will be filled with the Holy Spirit; there is going to be holiness and Godliness in the church and you will see these kinds of wonders and signs and miraculous power! So I do believe that is going to happen; and I do not think that the Lord coming is going to happen until you do see a revival of the faith that was once delivered to the saints. So we are on the right track! Miracles do come and go in waves biblically, you can even read where Gideon was asking the angel, way back in the old testament, Gideon said, “whatever happened to the miracles we used to read about?” and of course a lot more miracles came after Gideon; and then there was a wave where there were no miracles, and then miracles came again. So they seem to come in tides and we are going see the tide come in again before the second coming. Thank you for your question Mary, I appreciate that and I like people that take the Bible for what it says! Alright, Roger is calling listening on Sirius XM, Roger you are on the air with Bible Answers Live!

Roger: Thank you for your show sir I greatly appreciate it and your knowledge is just phenomenal…my question to you tonight, is- I am one of these people that are walking around here knowing that Jesus has died for me, I read the Bible and I see what is in there and I read Jesus’s Word in the new testaments and what He did, and for some reason I cannot seem to commit to Him with 100% of my soul and I guess I am just looking for a little guidance here on how to get over that, because I know what is good and I just cannot seem to; I don’t know even when I pray, it just does not seem right and I do not know if I am not saying the right words or if I just have not allowed the Holy Spirit to come into me like I should; I mean if I could just break this wall and I just cannot seem to get to the other side even though I know that is where I want to be.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know you are asking the most important question right now; this is the most important question that we can get, is how can I be a genuine Christian? How can I know that I have totally surrendered to God and that I have said, “Lord my life is Yours?” Well the first thing you do is just what you are doing, meaning you make a choice, God has given you freedom, God will not force Himself on you if you are not willing, so if you say to the Lord, “Lord I am willing to do Your will and Lord if I am not willing I am willing to be made willing” You see what I am saying Roger?

Roger: Yes I do

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Admit to the Lord and say, “Lord my promises are like rope of sand, and I make promises, I have good intentions I know what I should do, but I end up not doing what I know I should do” kind of like with Paul described his struggles in Roman chapter 7, but then when we get to Romans 8, he said, “how do we do that, how do we end up getting the victory of the Spirit over the flesh?” And he said “I thank God through Jesus Christ”. When you continue to pray and say “Lord I am willing for You to work in my life and do whatever You need to do” do not get discouraged, the apostles followed Jesus around for three and a half years before they were really converted. The best answer for you, I do not have time to give you, but I would like to tell you where to go. There is a book that is a classic; it was first printed by Fleming Revell; and it is called ‘ Steps to Christ’ if you just put in quotation marks you can read probably for free online, because it is old enough for the public domain. Steps to Christ and it is a beautiful book it has about twelve or thirteen chapter that explain, ‘How do you Surrender to God’ I think that is what you are asking

Roger: yes it is

Pastor Doug Batchelor: and anyone out there I recommend you read that and – can I pray with you Roger? Will that be alright?

Roger: Sure Please do, Yes

Pastor Doug Batchelor: “ Father in heaven I just want to pray for with Roger and for everyone out there, myself included, that just strives and longs to have a total surrender to You, Lord we are willing for You to move into our lives and do whatever it takes for us to experience that surrender because we know that is the only way to have life, I pray that You will do that for Roger and those who are listening and help us to know what it means to be emptied that we might be filled by Your Spirit, we pray in Jesus name, Amen!

Roger: Amen! Thank you sir I greatly appreciate your time and your show.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, well thank you, you pray for us, I appreciate your call. We are going to go next and talk to Anne who is listening from Medfield Oregon and you on the air Anne thanks for calling

Anne: Well this is an honor pastor Doug. At what time in our lives will we feel the anguish Christ felt on the cross, when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race? Is that just before the Lord comes? Or when we do not have a mediator?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It describes a time when- first of all anybody who grieves away the Holy Spirit, you know when you commit the unpardonable sin and that could go all the way back to Balaam and the Old Testament or King Saul or Judas in the New Testament or Ananias and Sapphira, they were some people that grieved away the Holy Spirit, and they sensed that separation from God, but there will be a time even for the saved, when it says that everybody is sealed one way or the other, they have either gotten the mark of the beast, or they do not. Something like the time like when Noah and his family entered the ark and God shut the door, the rain did not come for seven more days but the saved were saved and the lost were lost! And so that is going to happen again near the end of time. When will it happen? I think that is described in Revelation 22 when Jesus declared that, “He that is just let him be just still and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still” and you can see it also in Daniel chapter 12, where it says, “Michael will stand up, and then there will be a time of trouble such as there never has been” then the plagues fall. So once the plagues begin to fall, probation is closed, the saved are saved, the lost are lost and nobody will be changing teams anymore at that time! Hey I appreciate your question on that Anne, and thank you hope that makes sense.

Talking next to Craig, calling from Des Moines Iowa, Craig you are on the air with Bible Answers Live and you are listening in on the internet, it looks like

Craig: Yes Repeat caller here, of course I am always calling you guys

Pastor Doug Batchelor: That is alright we appreciate your question

Craig: You know I was looking at Mathew 16:28-29 and 1 which are almost identical, Jesus tell His disciples they will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds or whatever and coming with power; and I just wondered how do I reconcile, that how could this happen? Like they have to die, so they do taste of death

Pastor Doug Batchelor: well, the key is, and let me read this for our friends that are listening, and I will read Mark 9 since I am there Mark 9:1 and “ And He said unto them, verily I say unto you, that there will be some of you who are standing here, who will not taste of death till they have seen the kingdom of God come with Power “ so in all three gospels you find this in Mathew Mark and Luke when Jesus makes this cryptic statement, immediately after He makes this statement, there is an amazing experience, the amazing experience is the fulfillment of Jesus’s prophecy, the statement that He makes; ‘It says that after six days , He took Peter James and John, He lead the up to a high mountain, He was transfigured before them, they heard the voice of God, they saw Moses and Elijah, Jesus was glorified He was surrounded by clouds of glory, it is a miniature picture of the second coming, He said, “ you are not going to die” He said some of you standing here- it was not all of them, it was Peter, James and John, “Some of you standing here , you will not die until you see the kingdom of God come” Moses represents those who died and are resurrected, Elijah represents those who- you know Elijah never died, he just got translated to heaven and there will be some who are alive when Christ comes that will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air! So this was a miniature picture of the second coming that Christ gave the disciples to strengthen their faith before the cross

Craig: Man I do not see how I missed it!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Oh that is okay, a lot of people have; I wrote a book on this and I will send you a free copy, you or anyone who want to know and it is called ‘The Glorious Mount’ if you just call our resource number I will be happy to send that to you Craig! It is called the ‘Glorious Mount’ and that number is 800-835-6747. Friends if you would like to better understand the two witnesses in Revelation or this experience that we were just talking about, ask for the book ‘The Glorious Mount’ and that number again 800-835-6747 we will send you a free copy. Thank you for calling Craig!

By the way I want to remind our friends we are streaming on the internet in the time that remains and that is live.amazingfacts.org. Talking next to Pat, who is calling from WMCA in New York, New York, welcome Pat you are on the air!

Pat: Yes Pastor Batchelor, I am a religious person and sometimes I buy a lot of dollars, I wondering to know if I can lose my soul for doing that or even getting involved in the stock market; some one had called earlier and I was listening, but I did not get to grasp

Pastor Doug Batchelor: They were asking about gambling?

Pat: Yes sir, yes pastor, I am very concerned about that

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, first of all, I have no doubt that there is going to be people in heaven that played the lottery and may have gambled and may be did not understand the principles; the Bible is telling us that, “ sin is knowing to do good and not doing it,” so some people may not understand, I don’t want to make a blanket statement and say that everyone that has bought a lottery ticket has lost; but it is my belief that lottery certainly is in the same category as gambling, and like I said because people get addicted to gambling and it can be a real struggle; the whole principle of gambling is one person gets a lot of money at the expense of a lot of other people losing money and there is no work really involved- the only work involved is in the accounts that are setting the whole thing up! It is not like anything is being produced! It is all kind of speculation; that is different than buying like a stock, when you are buying stock, you are investing in a company where real products are produced and work is performed, when you speculate with stocks it can start bordering on gambling; but the idea of investing in a company, there is nothing biblically wrong with that, Matter of fact Jesus says, - when he gave out the ten talents in that parable, He says to the one lazy servant who could have at least put it in the bank and I would have gotten some interest, and banks typically invest in the stock market. Lottery tickets and gambling they are not a lot different than a roulette wheel; so in that verse that we read out earlier, Proverbs 28:20 “making haste to be rich,” that is not the best way. If you take the money that you spend in the lottery tickets, you are better off investing in the bank or a dependable stock or you can use it to give it to the Lord work somehow and you will be storing your treasures in heaven

Pat: So I should stop, something but I keep going on and sometimes I buy a dollar that is it! So I am going to discontinue that

Pastor Doug Batchelor: yes, you will be saving a little bit and you will probably have a piece of mind- It will not cost you much. If you would like Pat, we have a book we would send you for free, it talks about the Christian and finances and it is called, ‘In God we trust’ and we will send you a free copy just call 800-835-6747 tell them you are listening to Bible Answers Live and that we have just offered you that booklet, ‘In God we Trust’

I think we have time for maybe one more caller, we are going to talk to Andy, he is calling from Detroit Michigan, Andy you are on the air, and you are listening from WMUZ, thanks you for calling

Andy: Thank you for taking my call, I have a question, when you are dead and Jesus comes back to take you up or something, what if you are cremated? How does that work?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So for the resurrection you are wondering will cremating cause a bigger problem than if a person is just buried in the conventional way?

Andy: yes, how does your body meet together again? Your soul and your body

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well keep in mind it is not the old body, because it tells us in 1^st Corinthians chapter 15, that God gives us a new body,when we die we have a physical, when He comes to raise us He provides a new spiritual body; you know some people, let us face it, they might be buried at sea, they are not cremated, but they are buried at sea and their bodies bio degrade and they are gobbled up and spread all over the ocean eventually; when a person dies, ashes to ashes and dust to dust, it decomposes and kind of leaches down into the elements of the earth, other than some bones and teeth. And I don’t want to be grizzly but the Lord is not going to reassemble the old parts; it is not Jesus is going to come back and say; where are the pieces or leg and He has to find it all and try to reassemble us. The Lord is coming back to the place where we died so when He gives us our new bodies, we will take up where we left off and we do not have to have worry that its going to be a problem. Most of the time in the Bible when someone died, they were buried but some people were cremated and others were murders who were burned to death for their faith, that is not going to be an obstacle for the Lord resurrecting them; that same God that made Adam out of the dust of the earth, He made him out of virtually nothing, can recreate us! I always think of it like this Andy, you know I have a jump drive here in my computer and I can back up all my important files and this little bitty drive that holds like 8 gigabyte of information; the Lord somehow has us all backed up when we die, and He is going to create new bodies and download who we are, our characters into that new body and we will go off into eternity with immortal glorified bodies. Thank you for your question. I apologize friends if we did not get to some of you who were waiting in line, give us another chance next week. And I always like to say near the end of the program, we are listener supported 100%! We would love to hear from you! Amzingfacts.org, contact us let us know you are listening. God bless, until we talk again!

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